Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: The following is a legacy recording from the archives of the C.S. lewis Institute. While the audio quality of these recordings may vary, the content remains vital to the mission of the Institute to develop disciples who can articulate, defend, and live faith in Christ through personal and public life.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Thank you. Well, as we were singing that first song this morning, I just couldn't help but think of the words of Mother Teresa, who once said, it doesn't really matter what we do, for what matters is the love.
And when we think of that reality, we think also of therefore our fellowship with the Lord and our communion with him.
And so that's why these last years, my father life, has been so bound up with this one central concern, to communicate the reality and the importance and to celebrate it in my own life of prayer and see it as central to the Christian life.
And so this morning I thought I would touch on a theme that seems obvious and yet so easy for us to forget. And it's found in Luke, chapter 11.
We might turn to the passage, And it's simply contained in these first four verses of the chapter where it says that Jesus was praying in a certain place.
And when he ceased, one of his disciples said to him, lord, teach us to pray as John taught his disciples.
And he said to them, when you pray, say, father, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come.
Give us each day our daily bread and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us, and lead us not into temptation.
Then he followed that with a series of parables that we could touch on just now.
The point I want to emphasize from that is that the context in which the Lord's prayer was first given to the disciples was in comparing the way that Jesus was teaching his disciples was the way that other disciples were being taught.
And it's like saying, you know, Lord, you've done a lot of wonderful things and you've led us in many marvelous directions, but how come that you haven't taught us a prayer?
After all, what gives distinctiveness to other groups is that they have a prayer.
And John's disciples obviously had a secret prayer that was taught them when they became a discip of John.
And we know from the history of the period that the Essenes did the same thing. Qumran Caves There have been evidence of the documents that these ascetic leaders of the Essenes in the intertestamental period, the way that they provided cohesion for the community was that they had a secret prayer that belonged to the community.
And so this disciple is saying to Jesus, you know, how can we be kept together? How can we really have the marks of distinctiveness, of being your disciples, when you haven't taught us a prayer?
And so Jesus taught them the prayer.
Now, we know from the early church that this is exactly what the prayer life of the early church consisted of.
When those who were going to be baptized and they showed by their baptism that they were now the disciples of Christ, they were taught a prayer, and it was the Lord's Prayer.
And the Lord's Prayer was not something that was publicly taught in the church. It wasn't something for the whole world to know about.
The Lord's Prayer in the early centuries, and we know this from the second century, materials especially was only taught to those who took the discipleship of Jesus seriously enough to be baptized and to have a stigma in the life of that society that they belonged to Chrestus and that they were prepared to die for Jesus if necessary, because they now bore the name of Jesus in baptism.
And so it was to such that the Lord's Prayer was taught.
And so, really, the focus I'd like us to think about this morning is that prayer is the distinctive mark of being Christ's disciple.
And therefore it means also that all that is involved in the training of discipleship, all that is involved in the exercise of the life of prayer. But to be a disciple of Jesus and to be a prayer, as Jesus has taught his disciples, pray, is one and the same thing.
We tend to think of prayer as one of the disciplines for being a disciple.
But really, what I think the Context of Luke 11 is indicating to us is that all that is summarized in discipleship training as a Christian is involved in such a life, and the fruit of such prayer is the evidence of all that discipling that goes on in our lives to be one of his, you know, I hate to see you out in that circle. Why don't we all join the same circle?
It's just the aesthetic sense of not all being in the same circle.
Now, last night, for the sake of those who come this morning, we were suggesting something that bears on this, and it's that if one thinks of the inner life of the Christian, the whole of the inner life of the Christian is caught up in a constant motion that develops our interior life so that we don't opt for one kind of praying, but we see the whole of our life is caught up in a variety of prayers.
And so those of you who are here, you could bear with me just to go over those. That quadrant again that Jim Asked if I would repeat.
But our prayer, our life is caught up between attention and, if you like, to have a vertical axis. Between the use of our mind and the use of our affections. Or the use of our cognitive faculty and the use of our emotions. So at the north pole, if you like, you have the reasonal, the reasoning faculty. At the South Pole, we have the affective faculties of our emotional life.
Some of us are more cognitive, others of us are more emotional. But nevertheless, somewhere we need to have a balance.
And then if you take a horizontal axis like east and west.
Then on the.
On the east side, we have the Katathatic component of our life. That's to say, the way in which in our inner consciousness. We imagine and we symbolize, we idealize.
So we have ideas and we have symbols and we use our imagination.
On the west side of that quadrant is the apophatic. And that's spelt apo P H A T I C, which is the image lens.
And it's associated much more with a profound sense of awareness.
If attentiveness is how we view the Katathatic.
It's with awareness that we view the apophatic.
It's indescribable, but it's there.
Just as we cannot really describe the change that takes place in us. When we've been describing somebody attentively.
That's not there. And then suddenly they come in the room and we're aware of it.
And one of the dilemmas that we, men especially have. Is that women are much more intuitive to the presence of somebody than men.
We're such plots that we have a kind of film over our eyes. Many of us, we have a kind of colorblindness about the relational life. That we don't intuit the sensitivity.
As women can sometimes intuit the sensitivity of the presence of somebody.
And so, if you like, the west quadrant is much more the feminine. And the east quadrant is much more the masculine.
Or if one thinks again of right brain and left brain hemispheres, we're now reversing them. The right brain is on the left.
And the left brain is on the right. As far as the squadron is concerned.
Just the other day I was speaking with a couple down in North Carolina. And the great pain that the wife was going through. Because her husband has this film over her. It's like a veil that Paul speaks about, a veil over his eyes.
He's not able to sense as she senses and to feel as she feels.
Well, it's all part of that right hemisphere. It's all part of that left quadrant, that western quadrant of our life, of the faculty of awareness.
And if we're not aware of other people, the odds are we're not likely to do much aware of God.
And so the quality of our relational life does reflect upon our quality of the awareness of God.
And there are many of us because we're not aware of other people and their feelings and their sufferings and their presence.
How in the world can we be aware of God?
It's exactly what John said, you know, he says, what's all this love talk about? Did you love God and hate your brother?
Well, we're not talking about that so much as we're talking about the fact that if we're indifferent to others, how can we really desensitize to be a word of God in our lives now if the reality of God is only going to occupy part of our time? So we say our prayers, we do our Bible study, and we do a lot of other things. And prayer is therefore simply a segment of the many things, many role playing that we have as Christians, then a lot of what I'm saying this morning seems irrelevant, seems unnecessary.
But if we're really believing that in the context of Luke 11, that to pray as Jesus prays is a mark of being a disciple of Jesus and that all the resources of discipling are required for us to understand the depth of the life of prayer, it makes one realize that prayer has to be taken as of central importance in our existence and that this life of communion with God is therefore the very heart of all that we mean by being Christian.
And that, I think, is the context of what.
What Luke is describing to us in these first four verses.
Now, I divided those quadrants into four because naturally the rational and the cataphatic means that the northeast quadrant is very much the quadrant of the way in which we have mental prayer or verbalized prayer, the way that when we pray we're using words either silently or vocally.
So we see that there's an importance for language, there's an importance of prayer language, we might say.
But many of us have so grown up in a tradition as evangelicals or in a Reformed tradition, certainly our whole Protestant Reformation emphasis has been on verbalizing prayer, that we can't imagine any other kind of prayer.
But the fact is we're starved in our interior life if that is really all the prayer is.
Because in a sense, if one thinks about it, it's only one quarter of the whole of the framework in which our lives should be caught up in the life of prayer.
And so the sati squadron between the cataphatic and the affective is the quadrant really of meditative prayer.
It's the what in the Middle Ages was called lectio divina, divine reading.
And it became the great focus of the whole monastic movement. You say, well, for 1700 years, what in the world have this population of the world be doing?
What have they done all their life?
And we never even had the curiosity to explore because we'd be prejudiced against that kind of tradition.
But what they are telling us is there's a tremendous amount of wealth that they have in an understanding of divine reading, meditation.
Many of us have never really entered into the life of meditation.
In the 17th century. One of the Puritans who really drank deeply from these medieval streams of monastic meditation was a man called Joseph Hall, Bishop Joseph hall, he was Bishop of Norwich.
And he has a volume, I have it at home, that he published about 1630 and over a thousand pages on the art of meditation and the themes of meditation and the way of life of meditation.
We know what it is to be a type a salesman. Have we ever known what it is to be a meditator?
There's a new type of profession for our society today, someone who's a meditator.
We've no faculties in the university for it, but I don't have salary.
That's the kind of question we could ask it.
[00:15:00] Speaker C: I'm more concerned about the benefits.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Well, he certainly talks about the benefits of it too. And one can see it in the serenity of some of these people.
One of the things that becomes an extraordinary element of our culture today is that so many evangelical leaders are actually going to Catholic priests and nuns to learn the life of meditation because they're not finding it in their own tradition.
And so we got so stuck in that northeast quadrant, we haven't a clue how to live in that southeast quadrant yet.
How did it arise?
Well, it arose from the fact that Jesus was no longer with his disciples.
And so they had to ponder on his words that were his presence after his presence of God physically.
And the desert fathers did the same thing after the desert fathers had left their disciples. And you see, the reality of meditation is pondering on life changing words, not meditating on information, but on the communication of language, which is life giving and life changing.
And so the desert fathers, they used to give these aphorisms, but the purpose of the aphorism was in order to drop bombs, explode and shatter the complacency. The Moral complacency of the hearer was something that was totally shattering and then life changing. One listened, one meditative one.
I mean, could anything be more life changing for Mary?
And to be told by the angel.
That as a single woman, she would bear a child and his name would be called Immanuel?
I suddenly realized just two weeks ago.
That my life had not had as much sense of gratitude and thankfulness as it should have. Because I never stopped to thank Mary by her obedience to the voice of the angel.
And it suddenly came to me how blind you have been all your life.
Never to stop and to thank Mary for her obedience to the voice of God.
And when you think about it, the communion of saints is this awareness of how thankful we should be for so many who have heard the voice of God.
Who meditated on that voice and whose meditation has been transforming their whole life.
And so words are like our currency. They become inflated and cheap and debased and ultimately meaningless.
But how different it is when we see that we have to seize on those words of eternal life that we meditate upon in our hearts. So that's the southeast quadrant.
The southwest quadrant is the area of contemplation.
And, of course, there's a fusion of all of this. So you can't really arbitrarily divide all these quadrants.
There's a merger from one to the other. So it's not as if it's simply for simplicity's sake, for teaching purposes, that one exaggerates the distinctiveness.
But the contemplative component is between having an effective life. Let's just say a life that pours out the reality of love. As we were hearing in the song and as we were praying together.
And yet, at the same time, is drawn to the sense of the ineffable, the mysterious, the numinous.
The holiness of God that makes God incomparable, incomparably the other, the holy other.
And of course, we celebrate him as creator. Because as creatures, he is incomparable. We can't compare any created thing with the Creator. So. So really, the holiness of God is founded upon God is Creator.
And it's because God is creator.
That therefore we realize that our thoughts are not his thoughts. And our ways are not his ways. So the apathetic mystery of God is what we ponder on. And so the contemplative that lives what we call often mystical life.
Is the one who, because of love, reaches out the ineffable. That's what we might say as contemplation reaching out to me to the ineffable, to the mysterious.
Now we live in a culture that wants to deny mystery. We live in a culture that wants to flatten all reality into problems, because the convenience of seeing everything problematically is that therefore we have solutions.
But there are many things in life that we cannot solve.
I mean, why you should choose me to be a friend, I'll never know.
And so one just rejoices in the choice that love makes, which is a mystery, or above all, why God should choose me, why should call me, is a mystery.
We also know that we live with the tragic mysteries of evil and we see how irrational evil is. We can't think of evil as problematic.
Evil is a great mystery.
And so the very nature of what is mysterious is not, as we sometimes think, something that tramps in my style of intellect and that therefore it's a cop out too, not using one's mind to say it's mysterious, as if we're becoming sort of rather feeble minded people when we talk about the mysteries in life.
But it's the opposite. Mystery is that which is overwhelming so that our faculties cannot contain the fullness of what it is.
So when evil erupts, it's so overwhelming in its character that we say it's senseless, it doesn't make sense, but it erupts in a tremendous chaos.
But likewise, God's revelation when it comes to us is overwhelming and we can't contain that either.
So the realm of the mysterious is the realm of superabundance that we have no facilities for controlling.
But we live therefore with awareness that much of our life is in touch with mystery.
And when we neglect that, then of course we inhibit the way in which we can live a contemplative life.
And then I suggested the northwest quadrant is the ecstatic quadrant.
It's the quadrant that we associate with charisma and for many people today, glossolalia.
But where many of us may feel that God bless you if you find that speaking with tongues is a way in which the intimacy of God and the nearness of God has been brought into your life.
But don't force it on all of us that we're only second class citizens of heaven if we're not exercising gossip earlier.
So we can be joyful, we can be ecstatic, we can have moments of awe and sheer wonder that are not charismatic in that sense, but all of us have to experience something of that.
So if we are living lives where we're never ecstatic, where we never celebrate great joy, then we have to ask what it is that blocking us from having that.
And so I think in the history of the church, we realize that there have been different periods when one or other of these four quadrants have been emphatic.
But I think what is happening to us as evangelicals is that we're waking up from a long sleep to realize that we've been in that northeast quadrant far too long and that our prayer life is just simply plainly not good enough as disciples of Jesus Christ. Christ, if being a disciple indicates that we have learned from Christ the manner of his prayer life, then we have to say that we're pretty poor disciples and we haven't learned very much.
And we have therefore to look again at the whole reality of our interior life as his disciples and say, as the disciples said, lord, teach us to pray.
Well, if that is so, let's continue this morning to think before we break up for some discussion on this.
To think what are the marks of this style of praying that makes Jesus disciples different from the Jews because they had a rich prayer life?
Or what are the ways in which we see that Jesus being a disciple of Jesus is a very distinctive thing?
Well, one of the things that we find here that is distinctive about being a disciple, and it's not found in Jewish liturgy, it's not found in the synagogue. In the Temple, there was very little opportunity for the Jew to really have extemporary prayer.
But in the synagogue, a lot of the synagogue worship was the prayers the could be given by the worshipper.
So the tefillah is a form of prayer that really echoes of the Lord's Prayer. The phraseology of the one is related to the other.
So those who were godly worshipers in the synagogue would hear echoes of the tefillah prayer in the Lord's Prayer.
But there were distinctives about the Lord's Prayer which make it unique in the history of prayer.
And the first thing that perhaps is unique about it is that the Jews never related prayer to God, with forgiveness, to each other.
Their prayer life to God was quite independent of their relationship with other people.
And to this day we find likewise in Islam that you can pray three, five times a day as a godly will do.
But look at the wildness with which some of these fanatics can operate.
So today, some of these religious fanatics that we call guerrillas, or we think of them as terrorists in Syria, they have a prayer life that is probably far more intense than our prayer life.
And yet at the same time, the terrorists, and they don't hesitate in the name of Allah to perpetrate these terrible murders in Paris, or if they got their chance, in America as well.
But our Lord's prayer life binds together inseparably forgiveness of others with our prayer life.
And this is a very sober thought.
And we have the passage in Matthew 6, of course, that amplifies on this, because in the lord's prayer that is amplified in Matthew 6, which is probably the later version, Luke is giving us the primitive version, the early, almost the verba episima of Jesus in Matthew 11, and Matthew is elaborating on it.
Matthew elaborates in that passage from verse 14 about the insistence that we cannot pray if we have an unforgiving spirit.
And we find that there are other passages In Matthew chapter 18, we're reminded there of the worshipper who goes into the temple and he brings his offering to the altar, but he remembers that he hasn't forgiven his brother, and he stole. Wait a minute, you can't worship.
You have to go back to your brother and settle the matter with him and seek forgiveness.
And then in the light of that, you can then come and authentically worship.
And there's another. There are echoes in many other places, but one that I find very striking, and it's certainly been a sober thing for my own relationship with my own wife.
But in 1 Peter 3. 7, it says, likewise, you husbands live considerately with your wives, bestowing honor on the woman as the weaker sex, since you are joint heirs of the grace of life, in order that your prayers may not be hindered.
And whatever we may take of those words, the weaker sex, and I know we could get into hassle on that this morning.
What Peter is saying very realistically is if there is domestic disharmony, your prayer life is shot down.
That if there is not that harmony within the whole, then you cannot exercise this kind of life.
But then that's very serious if we take the context of Luke 11, that we're not really Christ's disciples unless we also recognize the spirit of Christ's prayer life.
If that is the mark of our discipleship, then how profoundly important all of this is to get.
And so it's a very uncomfortable thing to think that our relational life, which is primarily the life of how we relate with each other in our woundedness, in a forgiving spirit, is so important, therefore, for the whole inner harmony of the life of the disciple.
Now this, of course, is overwhelming, and it sobers us all, and we think of the reality of it.
But it does mean that perhaps for some of us it may seem A life of despair that we're condemned to.
And therefore it does mean that Tuskegan, I think I quoted this to you before, a 17th century Pietist in Germany, he said that to look at man is to look at woundedness.
So that to look at man is to see the neuroses, the inhibitions, the phobias, all the evidence of our woundedness relationally one with the other.
And to wake up to that fact is to realize how much healing that is needed in our lives.
So this is another point that we're forced to see, and that is if we're wanting to see what is the heart of personal therapy for our own woundedness.
And the heart of it is our prayer life, that if we want to be healed as persons, then nothing is more fundamental than the understanding of our prayer life before God, and that
[00:31:14] Speaker C: all
[00:31:15] Speaker B: of these things hang together.
So we've said this morning that the badge of our discipleship is to have the spirit of Christ's prayer life in our hearts.
And now we're saying, and the heart of our prayer life is the healing of our persons before God, and that the need of our healing, which is so much bound with the exercise of forgiving, is bound with our prayer life.
So we're really touching the nub of things, aren't we, when we see the interconnectedness, interrelatedness of all of this in our prayer life.
And so this is the first. And it's enough to say, well, for the rest of my life, I don't need to hear any more about what's new about Jesus prayer life.
This is agenda for the rest of my existence. You know, what more do I want?
Well, there is more.
If we look at two passages that are very striking. One is found in Ezekiel chapter 18.
Perhaps somebody's got it if they could look up Ezekiel 18 and read the first three verses.
The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying, what mean ye that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, the fathers have eaten sourest grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge.
As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
What's the next verse? We should put that, behold, all souls are mine as the soul.
And read verse 29 to 34.
Jeremiah 31, 29, 34.
Got it.
No, somebody else. Who's got the passage?
[00:33:40] Speaker C: In those days they will not say again, fathers have eaten sour grapes and children's teeth are set on end, but everyone will die for his Own inequity.
Each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on heaven.
Behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand and bringing them out of the land of Egypt.
My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them, declares the Lord.
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord, I will put my law within them, and on their heart I will write it.
And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall not teach again.
Each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, know the Lord, for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, declares the Lord, For I will forgive their iniquity and their sin. I will remember no more.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Yes, see how remarkable it is that both of these prophets in very different contexts are quoting the same proverb.
And what is very interesting is that they're both saying that this is an ancient proverb that's been going around in Israel for a long time.
In other words, they're saying, long before Sigmund Freud in psychoanalysis discovered that the sins of the fathers are upon the children, and that the way that we hurt our children, our teeth are set on edge as a result of it.
The parents have eaten sour grapes, therefore the children's teeth are set on edge.
And we thought Freud invented all of us.
We discover that these prophets were saying long before we existed. This was going around Israel too.
So as long as the history of man, perhaps this would be going on.
But he says, you're not going to believe that any longer.
You're going to stop that blaming your parents.
You see, what happens to us is if we blame our parents for the kind of people that we are now, and shall we say, we blame them for 90% of our behavior.
Well, what does that mean? It means that you're only 10% alive, because to be fully alive is to be fully responsible for our past.
We can't blame other people.
And so really, the prophets are bluntly saying, for God's sake, stop blaming other people.
Don't blame your fathers any longer, because before me, you're responsible for who you are.
And so to be fully alive in a moral sense is to take full responsibility for who I am.
Of course, it's helpful to know that I'm headed to the Strait. It's helpful to know that the way that my father abused my mother is the way that I go on doing it with my wife, that gives us insight, although it gives us a lot of despair as well. But the prophet is saying, you can take that ultimately as your excuse for your behavior.
And so therefore, because of that, we have to stand before him and be responsible for our own lives.
And in the consequence of that, he is also indicating, and these are the resources that you'll have, because Jeremiah then goes on to speak about this new covenant that he's going to give.
It's going to give us a change of heart and a change of life, change of attitudes.
And so this is important for us to have also in our relationship. And that's why the second element of the Lord's Prayer that is so precious and is so new is that he now says, abba, Father, dear Father, our Father, who art in heaven, those pounding mists of our fathers have to be swept away.
Those wounds of our fathers have to be removed.
And who does it?
Our Heavenly Father.
And so the Lord's Prayer is indicating to us that we have a whole new stance to reality, a whole new way of looking about our past and realizing the great hope for the future because of it, because we know him as our Father. I was saying to some of you over breakfast this summer when I was in Australia and New Zealand, it was very striking to compare the founding myths of the Australians with the Americas. They're really antithetical because the myths of the Australians are that their fathers were convicts, 90% of them.
And so you forget the past, you just blot it out and you have no sense of history.
The Australian has no sense of history. He's living there. He's living so ahistorically, you think that the whole future of the Australian nationality depends on the boat race, the snake Gendry.
And so there's no consciousness of any past achievements as far as Australia is concerned, except that they did win the vote. Priests, the last timeline.
And it's pathetic. And of course, because of that absence of history, there's also a void about leadership because you see, you have no Founding Fathers on the customer.
And so while Americans have this founding myth of what they've done for democracy, for the world, and the celebrations of it are such that the most striking and popular feature in Disneyland now is to go and hear Abraham Lincoln all over again. And he's motivated, automated, so that he's standing up there and he's talking to you and really you just feel like shaking his hand.
Abraham Lincoln you know, my father, that does create a mythic consciousness as an American that gives him an exaggerated adulation of leadership. I believe that the two things are related.
Whereas I was saying that the Australians cut down tall pockets.
After you've talked, they'll say, oh, yes, that was an interesting talk. But, you know, your grandma wasn't quite, quite sure. You know, you misquoted a certain text.
Subliminally, they're not doing it consciously, but subliminally they're knocking you down all the time.
All that they can tolerate are pansies in the Australian gardens.
And the hollyhocks of the American gardens don't exist.
So pounding myths have profound influence upon our nations.
And if you go to Pretoria in South Africa and you see the laager and these half, this handful of boars standing up against these thousands of Zulus, and all the time you have the mentality that the boar mentality, lager mentality. Finding myths are so profoundly important in making any changes in the culture of South Africa today.
Well, all of us have founding myths, and we have the founding myths of our own fathers. This is the way I was brought up. And it was on rotten life and messed up life. And I see the effects going on to my children in turn.
Really, what prayer should be is a stamping of the spells of magic in our lives, those magical spells of funding myths, so that culturally we escape from being Americans or English or Australian or whatever, and that temperamentally, we should escape from the myths of our own background.
And so when we say our Father, we're saying something that is powerful and transforming for our lives.
So when you think about it, the life of prayer has really a far more efficacious psychotherapy than anything else we know is really to see prayer in a whole new way.
And so this morning, these are two of the challenges that I would like us to leave us to discuss. First, that we need to have that whole suite from the verbalizing of prayer and the meditation of prayer, contemplation of the presence of God, the ecstatic exercise of joy, and the recognition that he knows that he loves us and understands us and knows us.
All of that is our prayer life.
We therefore begin to realize that our stance to reality is as profoundly an inward stance as the outward stance that we tend to be.
That being openly directed will without being inwardly incisive is blindness.
And so a great deal of our Christian ministry today is a blind ministry, because it's not dealing with the inner man at all.
It's the compulsiveness of having to be up front and doing things.
It's the compulsiveness of the narcotic of busyness, which is a form of addiction because our interior life is not being transformed into the image of Christ.
And so one begins to see, therefore, that this is revolution.
This is really transforming for our lives.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: The proceeding was a presentation of the C.S. lewis Institute. In the legacy of C.S. lewis, the institute endeavors to develop disciples who can articulate, defend and live faith in Christ through personal and public life. For more information, please visit our website at www.cslewisinstitute.org. thank.
[00:44:20] Speaker C: You.
